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The second day of Time Out is here! This series runs every day this week, and features five brilliant moms from all over the U.S., answering five different questions on five different days. Yesterday’s question, regarding frustration in raising children, was pretty cool. But today’s question is a real humdinger, at least for me. Let’s get on with it!
1: There has, historically, been a lot of debate regarding whether full-time preschool benefits or harms children in the long term. What are your thoughts on preschool? Is three or four-years-old too early to ship your kid off to school?
Barbara Boucher
TherExtras
It depends. [One of the reasons the students did not like me.]
This is similar to the age old 20th Century question of the benefits/harm of daycare. The parents who are most capable select good preschools – so little-to-no harm done. Parents who are less capable take whatever preschool they get or choose poorly – with the results split for benefit to the children who get better preschool than parenting.
Characteristics of a good preschool: low child/adult ratio, developmentally-based curriculum, stable staff who form attachments with the children, enriched and structured environment. Remarkably similar to staying home with siblings and a parent. Personally, I think part-time preschool is adequate for 3 and 4 year old children. Full-time preschool is euphemism for daycare – the characteristics of which should match the above listed.
Kori Jones
See Kori Rant
Apparently I have missed the entire debate, with all four of my kids. It has never occurred to me that it WOULD harm children; does the teacher have issues with small children? A pointy nose and warts that might frighten them? I can’t think of a single reason pre-school would harm a child. I think that if mom does not work and the child does not attend daycare, pre-school would be a benefit in order to provide socialization skills for three and four year olds. Or to keep mom from completly losing it for at least a few hours a week.
Aline Pfingsten
RedSparks
No debate here, I’m all for it. Especially, if the child is ready. What’s the point of keeping a child at home that is bouncing off the walls? Not to mention benefiting from the social aspect of preschool, a set schedule, learning to make friends etc…. In my case, my daughter Frankie was absolutely ready. Before preschool we did daycare twice a week. I knew that once preschool started it would be an every day, all day thing. Going to daycare gave her the opportunity to get acclimated to slowly being away from home. She loved it. A year later when she school started, she was one of the few kids who didn’t have a hard time with the transition. At that point I felt that I had done everything I could for her at home. The first day of school, although an emotional one for my husband and I, she hardly looked back to say goodbye.
Mr. Lady
Whiskey In My Sippy Cup
I have no idea. What I DO know is that I didn’t send my kids until they were four, and they’re no farther behind or ahead of any of the kids in their classes, and they’ve never been. I am lucky enough to have never NEEDED daycare or preschool, though. I would guarantee you that if you lined up 10 adults, you couldn’t pick out which ones were in preschool and which ones weren’t.
McMommy
The McMommy Chronicles
Ok, am I going to look like the bad mother here because I shipped my then 3 year old off to school 5 mornings a week? And do we have to use the words “shipped off”? It makes me sound even more delinquent. I mean, really, I did feed him breakfast at least before I kicked him out of the minivan and peeled out of the school parking lot.
For the record ALL YOU GOOD MOMS OUT THERE, my son actually loved it. He begged to go “full days”. And this year? He’s going full days and begging me to stay for “after care”. So I don’t think he is going to be harmed at all by attending preschool 5 days a week. If anything, he’s going to surpass me in intelligence very soon.
These are all really good answers in my book. My own particular concern with preschool is weighing two responses to one main question. Does the child benefit more from the education or from additional time at home with his or her parent(s)? My daughter is still four, and I think we’re doing the right thing by having her in school. Yet I have always wondered if she is not so stubborn and so independent as a result of so much time away from home. Time will tell, I suppose. But at least I don’t feel like a jerk now!
Thanks to the Time Out panel for another great discussion! If you’d like to read more of their answers, click the link below for yesterday’s discussion.
-Matt
If you DO decide to send your child to school, you can get them great clothes here.
January 26th, 2010 at 8:36 am
In response to Barbara, I think that there are lot of different factors into what daycare/preschool is chosen, and to simply assume that a poor daycare provider is due to parental incapability (of what, I might ask?) is grossly oversimplifying it. The increasing costs for quality child care, be it pre-school OR daycare, is definitly one factor which might prevent a parent from choose The Best. In addition, The Best Daycares and Pre-Schools typically have a waiting list, and it somehow seems to coincide with how much the parents are willing or ABLEto pay. Furthermore, due to various state-by-state budget cuts, there isn’t the kind of stable regulation that assures daycares are safe, well-maintained, and healthy environments for the kids. I “get” that we as parents have the responsibility to make sure our kids are in the best environment possible, and I agree-but when a single parent HAS to work and there are only two daycares in town, it is a lot easier to say than to do.
I totally GET what you are saying, and agree for the most part-other than the rather high-handed assumption that everyone in the US has the same kind of opportunities to make sure our kids get The Best. Sadly, most don’t, and barring having our kids be phsycially or emotionally abused, we sometimes have to settle for fed and loved.
Kori´s last blog ..Peace might not reign, but it does dwell
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Barbara Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 9:41 am
@Kori, Seems like Matt said something about being brief over verbose (something about wide margins….) A whole dissertation could be written on this question (many have). I’m glad you GET what I said and I agree with you that the decision is NOT simple for many parents.
Matt asked about long term harm, and I believe the research that says better parents make better daycare and preschool decisions. What might be missing from that relationship is that there is a WIDE range of better. Repeating what Mr. Lady said – former preschoolers are indistinguishable from others as adults.
Barbara´s last blog ..Dry Winter
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Kori Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 10:12 am
@Barbara, That is the one bad thing about this-that we could all go into great detail and still not be able to address all of the different factors. I do have to respectfully disagree though, that poor pre-school or daycare choices indicate poor parenting. Maybe in bigger areas, where there are a lot to choose from, but even then, I do believe that issue is more about how much oyu can afford to pay rather than the quality you would LIKE to have for your children. Again, though, that isn’t taking into account a lot of different issues.
I know that in my case, having been the single mom of four kids for many years, if my kids didn’t qualify for the pre-school programs through the school district (which two of them did/have not), they didn’t get pre-school-no $$. I believe the harm done comes from, again, lack of quality child care options, be they daycare or pre-school at a price that people can pay. When you live in a one OR two parent household where it is NOT an option for one parent to stay home, there is typically not the kind of money avaialable, so parents have to settle for less than they would like to.
Kori´s last blog ..Peace might not reign, but it does dwell
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January 26th, 2010 at 8:51 am
I’m with Kori, it’s not an option for me to not send my son to pre-school- I’m a working single mom. But as with any school, I think that it’s important that they go to a school where they’re learning and interacting if at all possible. And I don’t think the lack of pre-school would necessarily hurt anything either as long as the parent is providing some age-appropriate learning and socialization opportunities. Kids are remarkably adaptable.
Cat´s last blog ..Good News
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Kori Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 9:00 am
@Cat, One of the things I have found interesting in light of the whole long-term benefits vs, short term ones is that two of my four qualified for and went to pre-school-and while short term it was probably good for both of them, there are no differences in terms of social abilities or academic abilities, beyond the natural ones (innately outgoing vs introverted, etc…). I agree that the key factor seems to be, like you said, whether or not the parents are doing learning activities/games with the kids or not.
Kori´s last blog ..Peace might not reign, but it does dwell
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Cat Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 9:07 am
@Kori, same with my family- my mom worked through my first 5 years so I went to pre-school, was a SAHM for 2 years of my brother and all of my sister, and we’re all very different- but it’s our personalities, not the 20 year impact of pre-school.
Cat´s last blog ..Good News
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January 26th, 2010 at 9:53 am
I popped over here from Barbara’s blog… TherExtras– I left a comment there– but I was going to say that in my opinion– pre-school is a GREAT choice for kids and families. Learning how to seperate from your child can be one of the hardest lessons of parenting, I say get it over with ASAP!
Life is all about transistions, learning early that change will happen, seems to be be a GREAT thing!
thanks for letting me share my opinions!~
Stacey ´s last blog ..Monday is here…oh gee, oh gosh
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January 26th, 2010 at 10:06 am
My first commenter today (which is on a post titled “Choices” – not yesterday’s post listed here) mentioned “Mommy Wars”. Hehe. Reiterating I think preschool is an individual decision for those who can choose and for those who feel they have no choice, they do the best they can. There’s no war-ring on my part. Well, except I hope that preschool does not become part of mandated education – like kindergarten has.
Barbara´s last blog ..Dry Winter
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Kori Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 11:45 am
@Barbara, It wasn’t my intention to get into a mommy-war, and I am sorry you took my very respectful disagreement in such a negative way. I am also sorry that you seem to think that some parents “feel” they have no choice; the truth is that many parents HAVE no choice, it isn’t about some “feeling.”
Kori´s last blog ..Peace might not reign, but it does dwell
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January 26th, 2010 at 10:14 am
@Barbara, THAT’S what I should have called this series….its BRILLIANT.
Thanks for the honest opinions, everyone. Great discussion so far. Seems like a lot of the discussion is centered around the question of whether or not parents are in a situation, either professionally OR financially, where they MUST ship their kids off (sorry, McMommy) to school. For us, we had the option either way, and still chose to send our daughter at three. I think Barbara DOES raise an interesting point, though. If, at the time, we were not in a position to send our daughter to a private school, would we have done it? It’s definitely a factor I had not considered.
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Kori Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
@Matt, I think that most of us would be more likely to send our kids to pre-school if a private pre-school were a viable option. Because there is no doubt that working parents often have to settle for the bare minimum of care and learning when money is an issue (or in some cases hope their kid is *just* behind enough to qualify for school-district sponsored programs), but if it weren’t? I know that for my own family, I would totally go for the higher quality program, even if it were part-time. Assuming I wasn’t working, you know.
Kori´s last blog ..Peace might not reign, but it does dwell
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January 26th, 2010 at 11:39 am
One of the reasons why it’s good to send kids to daycare/ school is because no one REALLY holds up their end of the bargain as parent (c’mon now let’s be honest)
Fact is, it’s a ton of work.
In other words, your kid doesn’t honestly get the attention they deserve when they are at home all day. TV, internet, chores, bills……every tiny little detail gets in the way of truly spending devoted time with your kids.
As a general rule, we look for things to ‘distract’ our kids, while we carry out our daily responsibilities. Sure, we find things to do together, but they are usually short and sweet pockets of time. Hardly a full time commitment.
As soon as the cell phone rings, you answer it.
Tell me the last time you focused 110% on your child for the whole day….and I’ll point out 20 days that you didn’t.
Just sayin’
BTW- My 2 year old daughter came back from daycare last week, and told me that alligators lived under her bed. Couldn’t believe it, I thought I’d hidden them away pretty well.
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Kori Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 11:43 am
@Carl Spackler, Who says that being a parent requires 24/7 full-on, hands on attention to a child? I guess I bristle at that one because sure, all of those things are part of our daily lives, but that is simply life and living. I would think a parent who eschews pre-school simply because they are lavishing every second of every day on their children are going to do FAR more damage than sending them to pre-school would.
Kori´s last blog ..Peace might not reign, but it does dwell
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Mr Lady Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
@Carl Spackler, I’m with Kori. I think the world would be full of a lot of totally unhappy, needy children if they never had a moment to themselves. I don’t think for a second that 24-7 is in the parenting contract. I think teaching them to be happy people who can fill their own needs is.
Mr Lady´s last blog ..If The Paranoia Doesn’t Destroy Me, The Insomnia Sure Will
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Matt Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
@Mr Lady, this is true, but I admit I have to agree with some of what Carl says. The truth is that, when I have ALL day at home with my daughter, I’m pretty much out of ideas with her by 10:30 and we just start getting on each other’s nerves. That’s why this question is so important to me. I feel like there’s a lot of pressure to do to 24-7 and be happy about it all the time, at least it seems like it, and often feel like a failure because I get sick of my kid once in a while. She gets sick of me too. As bad as this sounds, sometimes I feel like she’s better off at preschool than with me. At least for long stretches.
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Mr Lady Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
@Matt, what is it that makes you feel like a failure? Did your doctor tell you you’re never allowed to need a break from your kid? Or is it peer pressure? If someone told you to jump of the Brooklyn Bridge…..
Mr Lady´s last blog ..If The Paranoia Doesn’t Destroy Me, The Insomnia Sure Will
January 26th, 2010 at 11:58 am
My girls thrived in pre-school and both were ready and pumped to start kindergarten when the time came.
I think this “debate” is more a testament to parents’ insecurities than a real right or wrong answer. However, if we can phrase things in less combative words, we stand the chance of being more receptive to the benefits of either going or not going to pre-school (or any of the other “wars”) and learn how to reap the advantages and overcome challenges in any situation.
April´s last blog ..A beautiful day at the spa
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
SHEW…HOT Topic, for sure! Poppin’ over from Therextras. I am mom to a special needs child, who qualified for PIP program in our state (basically early special needs preschool) We chose not to send her when she turned three or four or five. We did meet with the s.d. but were unimpressed and they reminded me that under the law, they are only required to provide an “adequate education” for them. Adequate is not enough for us! Of course, we have bigger issues with a special needs child. But ultimately, we feel like we should not be pushing her out the door b/c that’s what society tells us to do. We felt like she should have as long as possible to be with her parents and to get as many skills as she could. It seems that society is so quick to “educate” our children. While that is good in a way, I feel like we have lost a lot focus on families. Not knockin’ anyone’s choices but for us, keeping her at home was the best decision! It works for some and it doesn’t for others. I don’t think we can make broad, sweeping judgements for everyone. You have to find what works for your family and be sure you can live with your decisions.
Candace´s last blog ..Rolling Progress…..
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Matt Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
@Candace, THIS is the reply I was looking for. Why? Because I don’t think I am capable of doing what you do without completely losing it. In my reply to Mr Lady I referred to this. It’s frustrating and, frankly, makes me feel like a bad parent (or at least a bit selfish) sometimes.
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January 26th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Mr Lady, ran out of room in my own comments…sheesh. Perhaps because no one, present company excepted, ever TALKS about needing time away from their kid, or vice versa. I’m sure it happens, but for me? Honestly? The awesome education/socialization benefits my daughter is receiving are simply positive side effects of me not really knowing how to entertain her, scratch that, STIMULATE her all day long.
And I’d probably say no at this point. I’ve never really like Brooklyn. San Francisco has a nice bridge though. Good aquarium, too. You know, for before.
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Kori Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
@Matt, Oh my gosh, EVERYONE neds a break from their kids. Frankly, even if I didn’t HAVE to work, I totally would, because I need that adult time. I think we all get caught up in the Good Parent/Bad Parent Hoopla that we forget that we are adult human beings who were friends and lovers and employees and volunteers and…LONG before we became parents. Some people thrive on being home with their kids all the time, some don’t, but EVEN the most content stay at home parent needs a break. And if they say they don’t, they probably drink too much or exercise compulsively or some other escapism behavior. Give yourself a break.
Kori´s last blog ..Peace might not reign, but it does dwell
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Mr Lady Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
@Matt, what Kori said. I think common sense dictates that you can’t do anything for too long straight. Hell, there’s a limit for how long you can do Viagra.
I have always held firm that if people drop the stupid baby books and just went with it, a whole lot of lives would be easier for everyone.
Mr Lady´s last blog ..If The Paranoia Doesn’t Destroy Me, The Insomnia Sure Will
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Matt Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
@Mr Lady, @Kori, I am sure you are both 100% correct, and I DO feel the baby books are to blame a bit. But as you both know, I don’t do “going with it,” very well. No matter how hard I try, I always think I can do better, yet rarely do.
Also, didn’t know about the Viagra limit. I was starting to wonder why everything looks blue all the time.
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January 26th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Daycare? I started taking my 3-year-old to work every day the moment she could walk.
Honey, can you grab the letter opener for daddy? Now don’t run with it.
Sweety, can you give this note to Mike over there? Daddy doesn’t like him very much but doesn’t want to tell him to his face. Little lady, what did you do with my TPS report? Talk about real world learning! I don’t think there’s anything better. Come to think of it, isn’t work really just adult daycare?
Matt – why no men on the panel?
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January 26th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Hey All,
A little birdie told me about his debate, and I thought I’d chime in. I have several responses to comments made here and there…
“developmentally-based curriculum”
“developmentally based cirriculum” implies that someone else knows what my child is ready for and understands based on his age. Not true at all. It’s a rough guess, but highly inferior to an engaged parent providing regular mental, physical and artistic stimulation for their child.
“Full-time preschool is euphemism for daycare”
so true:)
“I can’t think of a single reason pre-school would harm a child.”
Harm MAY be a little too strong of a word, but I do think it can without a doubt teach a kid awful manners if nothing else. It’s pretty easy to pick a preschool kid out. In order to not get completely bullied, even the nicest kid has to learn to grab things they want (if they want to play with anything) and learn to be subtly mean in ways that don’t call attention. They may also learn more overtly aggressive behaviors from other children when they see those behaviors working so well.
“pre-school would be a benefit in order to provide socialization skills for three and four year olds.”
Huh. I just don’t get the need to put a kid around a bunch of other kids with similar problems (not sharing, aggressiveness, stinginess…), with not enough adult supervision and think that’s a great thing (socialization). Kids who stay at home aren’t locked in closets. They see lots of other people every single day. There is no need to create a lord of the flies situation. Even if there is a low adult to kid ration, there is no way to prevent constant misbehaving that is not corrected by an adult. Tons of stuff is going to go unaddressed, so bad behavior flourishes and is by default rewarded.
“What’s the point of keeping a child at home that is bouncing off the walls? Not to mention benefiting from the social aspect of preschool”
Who said keep them at home? We go out nearly every day of the week. Parks, zoo, botanical gardens, park again:) We usually meet a friend as well on these outings. In the morning before we leave, we read and sometimes to art or crafts. In the afternoon after nap, he usually helps me cook. In the evening, play with toys and more reading.
No keeping a kid inside, and the kid gets socialized. But when there is one parent to one or two children, you make sure that the children learn how to behave properly in society (no hitting, shoving, pushing, yelling, grabbing…). That’s what I think of as true socialization.
“He begged to go “full days”. ”
Maybe you actually did lots with your kid, but I’m guessing that for whatever reason you didn’t. Kids do have needs, and it’s no surprise that if they aren’t met, they are going to want a more stimulating environment. Did you take him out everyday (and not in the yard). Did you see a friend almost every day of the week? Did you do art and music at home regularly? Did you read every single day? Did you learn new songs often? Maybe he was just really bored at home, and maybe you weren’t giving him enough friends so he was a little lonely?
“Does the child benefit more from the education or from additional time at home with his or her parent(s)”
I’m not sure why the separation of at home or education? I guarantee there isn’t a preschool out there that would educate my kid (2yo) better right now than I am. My child gets more time with mommy, and a superior education than he would in preschool.
“One of the reasons why it’s good to send kids to daycare/ school is because no one REALLY holds up their end of the bargain as parent”
Not here:) Honestly and seriously. I do hold up the bargain. I really do a lot with my kiddo. I think when we’re planning to have kids, we should ideally expect to do a lot with our kiddos. It’s a big responsibility, and we should live up to it. We don’t watch TV, the internet is used for educational activities, he helps with chores (yes my 2 year old helps and loves it), and we don’t do bills when he’s awake, or at least, not both of us at the same time:) Things like chores for example, I look at as a way to set an example of how to live, and I include him, even though it takes much much longer. I think it’s a great lesson.
Allllll of that said, I do think preschool is much better than daycare for working parents, it can be good if a parent doesn’t speak English as a 2nd language and wants to surround their kid with English, and several other specific situations (maybe mom is caring for an elderly parent?). But in general, if the mom is staying at home, preschool just serves to give mom a break, and nothing else.
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January 26th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Wow, it didn’t include the spaces I added to make the book more readable:)
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January 26th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
[...] Out, day three. The series is going swimmingly well, I must say. Yesterday’s question ended up being more of a hot button than I expected but I think that, even though things got [...]
January 29th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
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Barbara´s last blog ..Do you see what you get?
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